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Ritual as Remedy: Intuition & Feminine Power with Mara Branscombe

• Jessa Bruno • Season 1 • Episode 12

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In this episode, I sit down with Mara Branscombe—author of Ritual as Remedy, ceremonialist, spiritual coach, yoga teacher, and meditation guide—to explore what ritual really is and why it matters now more than ever. We talk about attention as a form of power, the difference between instinct and intuition, and how modern life disconnects us from both.

We also move into the feminine path—people pleasing, self-abandonment, the void state, and what it means to come back into your truth. Mara shares her perspective on archetypes, discipline, and the role of ritual in navigating life’s transitions, including those moments where everything familiar falls away.

This is a conversation about learning how to stay with yourself—especially when it’s uncomfortable—and remembering that your life is something you participate 

🔮 Connect with Mara Branscombe
🌐 Website: https://marabranscombe.com/
🌿 Ritual as Remedy: https://marabranscombe.com/ritual-as-remedy/
📸 Instagram: @marabranscombe
🌒 Divine Matrix Oracle Deck: https://www.divinematrixoracledeck.com/store


👽 Connect with Jessa
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejessaverse/

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Disclaimer: The content provided by Return to Weird and its host, Jessa, is for educational, inspirational, and entertainment purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or mental health treatment.

By listening to this show, you agree that the host and guests are not responsible for any decisions made or actions taken based on the information provided. Please always consult with a qualified professional regarding your specific health or psychological needs. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of Jessa Bruno or the Return to Weird Podcast. 

The Essence of Ritual

SPEAKER_02

Ritual is anything that is done with a consciousness or an attention to words. And as we bridge into this world that we live in today, I think it's so important because a lot of us have lost rituals with the age of AI. We're losing our ability to think, we're losing our ability to write, we're losing our ability to go, who am I in my center? There's the maiden, mother, sage, huntress, lover, mystic, queen, and weaver. What I'm proposing in these archetypes is that.

SPEAKER_01

She wrote the book Ritual as Remedy and Sage, Huntress, Lover, Queen, which is all about the feminine archetypes. We had an amazing conversation about what is ritual really? Why is it so important? Why do we sometimes get off track? And how do we anchor back into our power and our truth? How do we work with the feminine archetypes to access our power? I notice so many women can get stuck in the shadow of the maiden archetype. And how do we move through this shadow, which shows up as people-pleasing and self-abandoning in order to maintain connection and a life that may not be aligned with where we're actually looking to go. So let's just dive right into the conversation. Thank you for being here. And if you like this content, please subscribe, like, follow. I appreciate you. So I came across your book, Ritual is Remedy, when a friend gifted it to me. And reading it felt like a ritual in and of itself. You have such a beautiful way with words. It's like an immersive experience that you're inviting the reader into. At least that's how it landed for me. It felt like I was really connecting to truth and feeling truth viscerally in my body. So thank you for that. And I would like to begin with what is ritual from your perspective and why is it so important, especially right now?

SPEAKER_02

Ritual is anything that is done with a consciousness or uh an attention towards. It could be as simple as waking in the morning and calling forward three things that you're grateful for. It could be as simple as going on a nature walk and leaving the phone at home or putting it on silent. And that conscious act of being in the present moment is what ritual is. And of course, across history from time immemorial, there, you know, humanity has had rituals that bring meaning to life. And as we bridge into this world that we live in today, I think it's so important because a lot of us have lost rituals that were connected to person to family faith practices, for example. That would that would become anchors, um, that would bring family together and us to show up in presence. And so what do we do now in in our life that is a ritual that is sacred to us? And I think that's where we can become more conscious human beings on the planet.

SPEAKER_01

What would you say are common misconceptions about ritual?

Misconceptions and Fear Surrounding Rituals

SPEAKER_02

Common misconceptions about ritual are it being like dumb, dogmatic, it being religious only, it being woo or dark. All of these, you know, um, whether it be from movies or books or scary things, or um, so I think that sometimes that word can be, oh, like, oh, I don't do that. I don't want to go into that. And and sometimes I think people, and I've had direct experience with friends and clients where, you know, they were afraid, for example, to work with Oracle decks, or they were afraid to um engage in um a practice with themselves because they they they were afraid of what they were gonna find out. But what they really found out was their their truth and their power and their and this intimate connection to their authentic voice.

SPEAKER_01

Do you feel like a lot of that fear comes from religion? Because the way that I'm relating to that is I've heard growing up, not from every family member, is one specifically from a Christian faith that oracles are like demonic. And yeah, so I'm wondering how much of that is religious conditioning.

SPEAKER_02

I think so much. I mean, I think it lives in us if we do not um open it up and work with it. I think it's it's the same thing when people are um yeah, afraid of um spirits, even. You know, like it's it's so interesting that some people have like this direct fear response. And again, it's because it's something that is unknown and something that is mysterious. And the more we work with unknown, mysterious energy on a daily basis, we get to invite in divine timing and synchronicity. So if I wake up every morning and I say, I am ready and willing to receive support today, show me a sign, send me a symbol. Now that's a ritual that I do. Who am I talking to when I say that? Well, I'm talking to creator, source, mother earth, the energy around, the helping and supportive energy around me. And so I'm pulling all of that in and I'm not naming it as one thing, but I'm allowing myself, you know, with humility, humble heart, humble mind, to be to be a beginner, to be to be a student of life. You know, life school is big right now. We are in big time. So what, you know, personally do you do as an anchor in your day? And can it become even more special? And that's what ritual is. It's like even more special.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love that. And you mentioned life school. So just for anybody that may be hearing that, like what is life school? Life school. We are in the school of life.

Life School: Learning from Daily Experiences

SPEAKER_02

We are being schooled by life. We are um it is, it's like, can you imagine when you were in kindergarten and you were going to school for the for the first time? And sometimes it's scary, and sometimes it's oh, so exciting. And really it is life school for me. It's the direct experience of daily life. And so there's this mantra that, you know, in I have a background and a practice in shamanism, and this there's two things I'd like to share right now, if that's okay. I would say life school energies, living energies. One is what you feed grows, or what you nourish in life will flourish. So in my daily life, and here on in life school, earth school, if I am feeding negative energy all the time, not even, not even really being conscious of it. Oh, that's always happening to me. Oh, I've always got to do this, I never get enough sleep, all of that stuff. That becomes the vibe, the alchemy that you are engaging in life school with or earth school with. And then, so, but if I turn in and tune into, may I be supported, I am supported, I am here, I am present. I'm gonna bring in some beauty and grace and love to who is in my direct company and to the strangers on the street. I'm gonna make eye contact and smile because I actually really feel that. I really feel that I want to show up in service to humanity in this way. So that's one energy I think that's really helpful. Um, you know, I always go back to that. It's like an imprint in my heart. What I feed girls, what am I feeding right now? What am I offering right now? What do I want to attract? And how am I putting that out there in the universe? And that's gonna look really different for everyone. And but that's part of finding the authentic voice, which is very much, I would say, this daily ritual of, you know, as we uh as we journey through each season of our life, we get to go, okay, who am I now? And what do I most believe in? And what is what I love to say, what's cooking right now, what's cooking for you? You know, like what is the bright light in your consciousness? So that's all around what you feed grows. And then this other energy I'd like to bring forward that has been very much an imprint and uh I'd say a very much a spiritual uh a spiritual path for me is when I call, spirit answers, or when I call for help, when I call for support, spirit answers. And when spirit calls, I answer. And what do I mean by that? So the ritual of your dream time, are you can you remember your dreams or can you start to bring this that it's not separate, that nothing is separate. That wild dream you had last night, not to make over meaning of it, but to start to internalize it. What message did it have for me? And what what can I open that perspective up even more to support self, to support others in my life?

The Importance of Attention and Focus

SPEAKER_01

I love that. Yeah, it reminds me of something. I don't know if you do you know who Blue of Earth is, but I actually think she was quoting Andre, the Know Thyself podcast host. Okay. It's it's um like our spiritual currency, our most valuable resources attention, focus, and energy. I think is what so it's really in aligned with what you were saying, that first point. And because what you feed is like what you're giving your attention and your focus and your energy to.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, absolutely. You got it right there. So those three things, and that is the accessibility piece that I would like to bring forward right now, which is what you just brought forward, that everyone can relate to that. So be it you call it ritual or be it you call it attention, this is where I feel humanity right now needs to remember and come together. And any way anyone can share that, any way anyone can inspire that is the path forward.

SPEAKER_01

What do you what's your take on like what is happening right now and why that's so crucial? And maybe not to bring fear into it, but what will happen if we don't take back our power and really become more aware of how we're relating to each other and the earth and everything?

Navigating Modern Challenges and Distractions

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think that what's for me, uh what I am seeing, sensing, feeling, intuiting with the age of AI also, is that we're losing our ability to think, we're losing our ability to write, we're losing our ability to go, who am I in my center? And then you add social media on top of that, and all the dopamine hits, and there that becomes this ruling energy of the psyche, and I feel that then there's a lot of puppeting. There's puppets, we're becoming puppets to this game in life school. And we are also there's a lot of posturing going on, um, because you know, someone will be like, oh, that person did that or wrote that, and now I'm gonna think that too, or I'm gonna write that too. Like, so I feel that there's this I it's like resonance. Uh, the word resin has come up a lot for me recently, and and renaissance, all these R words, but so this renaissance of who we are at our essence, personally, individually. And that is again gonna look different for everyone, but I think that, you know, a daily meditation practice, um, less time um viewing or following, and more time maybe writing, journaling, um, doing your art, doing your cooking, doing your nature time, all of these things are sensory and they're gonna keep us alive in our senses. We're um, and and we'll see it across the board in children too. It's very sad, actually. And I'm a mother of two daughters, so I'm like, you know, I'm the device cop where, you know, I want to let them be free, but I also know uh, you know, the brains are not developed yet. And so I have to be, you know, pretty diligent right now about all of those things and allowing them experiences and myself experiences to thrive without this viewing or uh, you know, to to thrive into what is like more pure source uh resonant energy. What's actually real? What's actually real? Yeah. What's right in front of us.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Human conversations, mealtime with candles, walks in nature without, you know, just downloading. And I hear, I hear them, and I walk my, you know, with my dog and my my friends and my partner, and we start, you know, that's where the downloading starts to happen. Like that's the release that we need to stay centric for our nervous systems to come into balance and harmony, and all these things can become rituals, even for ourselves. You know, so if you're in your modern day world right now and you're listening to this, can you bring forward one ritual a week and put it in your calendar that has nothing to do with your work, that has nothing to do with, you know, um, the home business and all of that. It's really about freeing your spirit.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's really important. And it doesn't have to be a huge thing either. It can, if somebody is listening to this and only has like two minutes for a ritual, like just light a candle and think about something that you're grateful for, kind of like what you said earlier. It can be small and then maybe over time you can expand.

SPEAKER_02

And over time, what starts to be small, it becomes more and more meaningful to the point where if I miss my morning meditation, which is so sacred to me, and I do I wake early and I do not talk to anyone before, and I go straight into it. Um, and it involves breath work and it involves a little bit of movement kriya from my my yoga background. And if I miss that, I I actually feel like I'm not quite whole starting the day. And then yeah.

Creating Personal Rituals for Connection

SPEAKER_01

No, isn't it crazy how and I think that that might be because of the information that we're inundated with every day and just like the lifestyle or like what we're encountering in the modern world. Because it feels like if we were all maybe living somewhere off-grid in the mountains, surrounded by nature, every day would be kind of meditative. But if we're living in the modern world, that anchoring ourselves into our own energy and into presence is the most important thing because it almost feels like when we leave the not, and we don't even need to leave the home to experience this, but we can lose ourselves. It's so easy to get pulled off track. And I think that that's why a practice and a ritual is so important, like you were saying. And so what do you do?

SPEAKER_03

May I ask? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So in the morning, I've been journaling every day. Recently, I actually just built an altar because your book inspired me. And I was like, I need to build an altar because I'm currently living in a furnished um rental for a year since coming here. I used to have an altar in my old place, but all of my stuff's in storage. And so I'm like, why bother? Like, you know, nothing here is mine. But I was like, no, I need to do this. So I finally did it. And so now I'm sitting at the altar and lighting a candle and just talking to my guides and asking for support, which is what I did in journaling. But I needed a little bit something more. I love that.

SPEAKER_02

That you, you know, I it's so important what you just said, that why bother, you know. So when that why bother voice comes up, it's like, oh, yes, go there.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Uh yeah, that's a really good point. I'm really glad that you said that um because I think that's gonna inspire folks to just go one step further. What kind of meditation do you do? Well, I do mindful mindfulness meditation. I do have a background in uh Buddhist practice, and I have been teaching yoga for 25 years.

SPEAKER_01

So I have You're on Gaya, right? I think I saw that on your website. What kind of yoga?

The Journey of Discipline and Self-Care

SPEAKER_02

Over 40 videos on Gaya, in fact. And I have an online platform. I, you know, I I teach a lot uh of yoga and movement practices, but I teach vinyasa and hatha yoga, and I do a lot of breath work. I do um more organic somatic release work to actually release uh nervous system dysregulation, trauma response. And I have a background in dance and especially in um more spontaneous improvisational dance and contact dance. So these forms actually from my younger years really again allowed me to move into uh the body form in a way that is more free um but still held in a practice. So I'm I'm always dancing with that. Um, you know, Gabrielle Roth, the founder of ecstatic movement. Um, she's now passed, but she said it takes discipline to be a free spirit. And so the discipline, it takes discipline to be a free spirit. The discipline is the practice. Whatever your practice is, whether it's going for a run, whether it's going to the gym, whether it's doing your morning journal pages or you know, your yoga, your meditation, what it is is that becomes this how do I show up and be attentive inside the practice? And I think because you know, again, that's such a a powerful anchor for us. How do we show up inside the practice? Can I let go of all the lists of things I have to do and all the stressors and all the worries just as an act of I enter into the practice now? It doesn't always work that easily, of course. You know, the human mind is wild, it's part of our human condition, is part of our psyche that is actually that we do evolve as we age. And so that also brings this ritual of you know each season and cycle of our life. And by aging, can we empower that journey like a ritual as opposed to take all the anti-aging things that are out there or worry about it constantly? Can we be right here where we are, attentive and always withholding the piece of um, how can I be more free in this moment? How can I be more joyful? How can I find laughter um inside this wild, crazy world?

Instinct vs. Intuition: Understanding Inner Guidance

SPEAKER_01

What you're saying is bringing up so much. So I'm gonna try to like, there's a lot of threads that are opening up for me because one thing I'm really curious about is how did you because you've been doing this for what, 25 years, like yoga, all of this kind of this journey that you've been on. So I'm curious to know how you arrived here and what it was like before. And then I'm curious, and I'm just saying this because I don't want to forget, I wrote it down. I feel like women struggle with discipline. And I'm just curious what your experience with that has been, or if you also see that women may struggle more with discipline and how that may be because of our disconnect with our cyclical intelligence. I was telling you before, I'm I'm 33, and I've only started to come into discipline like three years ago, and it's still something that I struggle with, which a morning practice has been like essential for me in cultivating discipline, but something I still struggle with. And so I feel like it has to do. Yeah.

The Role of Ancestry and Personal History

SPEAKER_02

Of course, you're not alone. I mean, it's the biggest thing. It's the biggest thing is to um prioritize self. And maybe that's it. Maybe that's women. And we're yeah, you know, we we get it from our mothers and our grandmothers and our great grandmothers and our great great grandmothers and the patriarchy, which is do the task, do the work for everyone else, do the stuff. Now in our modern world, we're like have the career, have the babies. Do everything. Take care of your partner, take care of your parents, and show up, you know, in all of that. And so sometimes I think that women feel guilty. Let's just bring that forward for having the practice, for setting, so maybe that is what it is around the discipline piece. Now men have less of a hard time, you know, they go to the gym seven days a week. And no problem there. I need it. You know, that, you know, that's that's my experience with my my husband, who, you know, I love that he goes to the gym, but he is able to compartmentalize that. And, you know, wow, that's something. Because so I'm actually just coming to that right now, too. And I mean, I work a lot with women and guilt and shame and and work on empowering them through that and understanding where it comes from. So I think that's the first step. Understand, you know, at the root of the discipline and why it's a struggle, what is it right there? What's one thing under? What's the root, you know, that's that's holding you back or distracting you? And that's a big question we have to ask ourselves all the time, you know, as creatives, as creators, as entrepreneurs, um, is, you know, what what is distracting me right now? I mean, that's a great liftoff for um the next step. And so I'll just just go back to where how I got here, um, and I'll I won't spend too much time on it. I was a gymnast actually growing up, so a high-level competitive gymnast. So the discipline piece right there, and that's a solo sport, right? It's kind of a team sport, but a little bit more of an individual sport. And I loved, I loved flying through the air. I loved being airborne. Um, so and that discipline piece was was pretty there for me. I learned about that, you know, and I learned about how to do it individually. And then fast forward, fast track, I um was gifted the um the presence of a mentorship at 17 um to enter into a women's group called Sisters of the Shield. It was a pagan uh group that they taught me all about the moon cycles. It changed my life. I mean, I was going in the trajectory of I was gonna be a lawyer uh or a university professor. That was, you know, it was right there. And I went to university early, in fact, at 17, and I came up, you know, I started practicing the moon cycles. I started practicing the energies of nature and nature cycles, and I was always such a nature person, kid. And so those things aligned so much where I was like, my mind was blown. Then I started taking Western, Eastern philosophy, Hinduism, Buddhism in my courses um in university, which then instead of going to do my master's, I went to India for a year. So this is all at I'm by this point, I'm 21 or something like that, spending a year in India. Um, yes, and so that's where my my yoga and my meditation really started forming. Um, became a teacher of that. And, you know, it went on, and you know, I've I've done many, many trainings and many lineages. And what I love to say also is that no time is lost. It's never too late to start something new. Everything that you've done in your background is contributing to who you are today. And what we want to do is we want to pull the gifts of those, like like we're a weaver, you know, we want to pull the threads of all that we learned through our ancestry, through our childhood, through our, you know, adolescence, now through adult life, and hone those as your gifts. And do not hold back in earth school, in sharing your gifts with the world.

SPEAKER_01

Hmm. I love that you started so young. That's such a gift. Um, I'm curious if your parents were open to like how did you land in an in um a pagan group, right?

Shamanism and Earth-Based Spirituality

SPEAKER_02

Well, that was amazing. My best friend's mom was actually in the group. She's a witch, like a good witch. I'll call her a good witch, right? Um, and doing this work. And so that was the direct line. And I was always so into it, you know, I was a hippie. I I was like born a hippie. You know, I was my favorite movie in grade 10 was like the Woodstock movie. Um it's just it was so natural for me. It was like it was just born that way. And I was the fourth child, so I was really lucky. I was in a really good position in the family to be the hippie and to just, you know, carry on. And my parents, you know, they they had a bit of a hard time, but they came around and and you know, they are they're so proud now too of you know all the things that I do and they they've softened and they get it. And and I've just because I kept showing up as as um with integrity, you know, it wasn't like I was just dismissing life. I was like, no, I want to go into this, and now I want to teach this, and now I want to share this, and now I want to write about it and take people on, you know, international retreats so we can really do the work. Um, so I'd say for anyone listening to really trust that part. And I had to, I did have to break free from their expectations, you know, of, you know, and we we did have a couple of hard conversations where they're like, okay, now it's time for you to really settle down and you know, get the do the thing. And I always did the thing in my way, and but I still did the thing. So yeah, that's an empowering piece to um support your friends in that, to support your children in that, to um, to support yourself in that vibe.

SPEAKER_01

It seems like you were naturally connected to your to your truth. Like it doesn't seem like you swayed from that much, which is not typically apparent in people, not a part of people's journey, usually.

SPEAKER_02

I think I had a lot of angels along the way, I must say. I had some amazing teachers, and so I just I followed that and I I got lit up by that, and I think I was pretty lucky.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you were guided. Yeah, I was guided. Yeah. You mentioned that you studied shamanism.

The Call to Write and Share Wisdom

SPEAKER_02

How do you Mesa carrier in the Quero lineage of the Peruvian people? So uh a Mesa is it's a training. The I've done the medicine wheel in the Peruvian lineage. And um, you know, it was I've done the pagan uh training, pagan Celtic wheel of the year, and studied quite a bit in that. And then I moved into the shamanic wheel of the year. And, you know, it was it's it's very much earth-based spirituality, is basically what it is to me. And it's about learning how to commune with nature in a way that is alive, that you are not separate from. And so it's been very supportive in, you know, ritual as remedy is based on the pagan Celtic wheel of the year. Of course, you know, my shamanic training and all the yogic training and all the years and practices of um come through there. And ritual as Remedy was my first book that I wrote, and it was based on a course that I, an online course that I taught for five years. And one day I had an intuitive flash that I I had never really had this kind of intuitive flash before, this feeling where it was like uh a kind of electricity up and down my spine. And then I got a photographic snapshot of me holding a book. And I had never thought about writing a book, to tell you the truth. And so I looked down and it was it was the Rituals Remedy course that I had taught that was so sacred to me. And I had brought so many people through that online course. And so then I made a contract, you know, when Spirit calls, I answer, you know, Spirit called to me and said, now it's time for you to do this. And it gave me a direct photographic snapshot before me. And so I could not not write the book. It was too painful to um think about writing the book and not writing the book than to write the book.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. That's how you know you have to do it. Yeah. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. I've been sitting with this a lot after reading the book Women Who Run with the Wolves. I go back, yeah. How do you differentiate between instinct and intuition? That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I love that book. It sat by my bedside probably for 25 years, also, and I returned to it again and again. I just actually saw it in my bookshelf this morning. That's funny that you mentioned it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm reading it for the second time.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, yeah. So here's how I would, you know, my first intuition and instinct around that question. I think instinct is when you're um is a force that pulls you uh towards something.

SPEAKER_04

It's a little bit more like maybe primal.

SPEAKER_02

Um it can get you in situations where it goes back to fight or flight, you know, and our animal instincts. Very much wolf-like. Instinct. Much more like, okay, uh keeping us in uh you know, safe space and also drawing us to our truth.

SPEAKER_04

Intuition for me, my experience has been it doesn't come with a backstory or a front story.

SPEAKER_02

It comes from uh aha. It comes from this feeling of yes, it comes from this energy that is not compared to a situation from the past or present. So sometimes for me, my intuition is a little bit more quiet, it's a little bit more in internal. Like I would say, my intuition brought me that photographic snapshot. I would say the instinct brought me to write the course. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I think it's so what what is it for you?

SPEAKER_01

I think they definitely work together. For me, instinct is it's that gut feeling that you get in the moment. And it's usually like a yes or no, or like something's off. I don't know, like be careful, be careful about this, or leave or stay. It tells me about this, like the safety and like the resonance and alignment in a situation immediately. And then my intuition is more of like guidance, it's more like directional, like it will tell you like what to do about that thing. And maybe that doesn't come right in the moment, but it might come like later on, the intuition. And intuition, it feels directional and like beyond conscious mind. Like, I there's no way that I like where did that just come from? It just feels random. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And so the big question that I get asked, um, I like how you put that. Um, thank you, Jessa, for sharing that. Because I think that was uh especially the part that you said intuition is what you do with the instinct over time. Is that what you said? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um I wrote an article on this, and it's something that I often get asked, and I also bring forward in in the trainings that I offer for folks, which is what is the difference between anxiety and intuition?

SPEAKER_01

Would you like to say more?

SPEAKER_02

Well, again, I think because you know, intuition and instinct too, you know, they they pair together. They they're like a pack of wolves themselves.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Embracing Connection and Truth

SPEAKER_02

And then anxiety, it can get confusing because sometimes intuition comes with a flutter in the heart or the like a butterfly wing, or um but sometimes anxiety does too. So um I like the racing heart is a little bit more anxiety. And what I'd I'd like to, you know, again say, and I I think I wrote it in both of the books actually that I wrote, I talk about it, which is you know, that your uh intuition doesn't come from the past or the future. So it's it's not in comparison to something. So when you're in comparison to something like, should I leave this relationship? Should I stay? Well, last time when I was in the relationship, da-da-da-da-da, I stayed and this happened. That's a little bit more anxiety. Or projecting the the worst case scenario on something, should I go on that trip, should I not? Should I take that job? Should I not? That we kind of project outwards to try to feel safe or to try to get that sense. But when we get to know our own anxiety, you know, personally, oh, you know, and that's where the meditation comes into play because when you're meditating, your anxiety starts to talk away. Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And if you just let it chill and come back to your breath, you learn how to chill in the moment when the anxiety starts to really take over. So I think that when we have those moments, and for those, you know, listening right now, I'd I'd love for you to even think about one time where you felt you had an intuition and you know, or a feeling of deep connection with oneness with self. I mean, that's also a little bit for me, uh, where we're in suddenly we're embodied in this space of pure connection, where there's not any distractions, there's not any fear, there's not any anxieties.

SPEAKER_03

And it's like, oh, that's your power, that's who you are, that's your truth. Have you ever had an experience like that?

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. Yeah, all the time. But I will say that it's a it's a lesson in living from that. Like that gets tough, like move, like is truly staying centered and anchored in your truth. And then living it, like staying in alignment. There's so many distractions and things that we can get caught up in. I think maybe that's part of the journey too, though, right? Like you find yourself disconnected, then you come back, and then you remember, and you're like, oh my God, it was so obvious. And then you learn, and then you like take what you learned and you apply it, and you know, it's just like this spiral.

SPEAKER_02

It's direct experience, and we should never be afraid of that. And also, there's always two, this non-dual relationship. There's always both. The shadow and the darkness leads to life, it gives birth to life. Look how we were born in utero, complete darkness. Look at the seeds of the earth, complete darkness. And so I think that um the shadow is a very much um important part of our journey and how we actually evolve from surface level. I mean, we can try to live in alignment all the time, but it's when we go to that shadow place and we fall off center that we re we come back into a center place eventually that's stronger than ever. And so it's about how you process that shadow belief and how you go, okay, there I go again into that bad habit or that poor behavior, or I fell off, you know, completely fell off the path. And what did I learn from it? And how can I be forgiving to self right now and gentle so that I can now receive the teaching and maybe get some more support? Because at different times in life we really need different support, and at different times in life we need to rest. And I think sometimes when we get so busy and stressed and we're in that, you know, a bit of that push-hustle culture of the patriarchy, and we have to just go like, okay, what's most important? Where do I, what can I let go of right now that is not serving? And what can I release that I can't control? That's a really big thing, I think. Also, if we're, you know, on the woman's journey on this path, is what can I release that I I can't control, in fact. And how can that give me more energy on a daily basis?

Navigating the Void State

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So important. How do you see how do you see the void state playing into all of this? Especially I have so many clients right now in this specific time that are in a void state. And so I'm just curious, like how you see that being Can you can you define what you mean by that? Yeah, so it's kind of like how I was saying before about needing to stay, like not needing to stay in alignment, but like wanting to stay in alignment and living anchored in your truth. And sometimes you hit a point where you're like the carpet underneath your feet just gets pulled, and all of a sudden you're in this void state where it's like you don't really know what's happening, but everything is kind of falling away. Like everything familiar is like dying off, and you're just kind of like releasing it, but it's also really scary because it's totally unknown. It's kind of like being in the chrysalis before the caterpillar becomes a butterfly. You don't know what you're becoming yet. And so you're being asked to just totally trust in the process. I don't know if it's just my clients right now, but more than half of my clients are in that, in that space.

The Midlife Chrysalis

SPEAKER_02

I think it's a really important space to talk about and to be in and to accept. And um midlife chrysalis is real. Um, and I know that many of your clients probably are not in midlife, but they will eventually be there. And it's midlife. Yeah, what is midlife? What age is midlife? Well, you know, for for a woman, um, I think a lot of us would um experience it in perimenopause. I mean, so that could be anywhere from 45, um, some even go early, but 45 to 55, I would say, is uh a time where um because of our hormones and they shift, it is palpable. So I've gone through that this year um in terms of the feeling, just like you're talking about, where um I say, okay, who am I? Who am I now? Who what is this? Where where do I want to go? And it it it's it can be a very unfamiliar feeling, it can be very scary, and it can be like all the systems that used to work don't work anymore. And so it's like a farmer's field sometimes needs to go fallow, right? In order for it to be regenerated. Like that is the science of soil. You know, you can't just keep growing the same thing, the same thing, the same thing year after year. That's why farmers rotate their crops, right? Because the different seeds have different nutrients and it's essential so that, and then the bees, you know, they're essential so that they can um help us heal the world. And uh and that cycle that goes goes along and along and along. And I think that that state is this chrysalis state. If we can continue to have our rituals inside of it somehow, and we have to approach it with uh a radical acceptance of like, why is this happening to me? Or what am I losing right now to this is happening for me? I am here to accept and receive what this chrysalis will eventually become. We never know what the like the caterpillar is the most unassuming. Like, look at the beauty of the butterfly. You look at the caterpillar, you're never gonna imagine it's gonna become that stunning butterfly, right? So that's like we, you know, tapping into the the real deal darkness of life, the dark night of the soul, the moments of deep despair, grief, loss, the journey of humanity that cannot always keep us in this trajectory of moving forward.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

The psyche, our psyche, our mind also needs to have this disruption. Young talks about this in midlife. This needs to it needs to crack a little bit so that we can evolve. And if, and this is the thing with ageism, if we do not Go there if we avoid it at all costs and continue to be the 25-year-old through midlife. We don't access the depth that then is going to emerge with this most beautiful set of wings, which is radical acceptance of our age, empowerment of our age, you know, the second, third, fourth act in life is like gonna be some of your best work. It's gonna be some of your best work, indeed. And so if one can be patient about that and trust that it doesn't all need to happen right now, and in fact it can't, because our psyche actually isn't there. So it's like, what can we do right now? You right to express ourselves, to take care of ourselves, to, you know, get the support we need, to find the inspiration that we want and need to then get come to this this next step. We'll eventually uh come into a place more healthy for sure, um, than gripping and holding and and you know armoring up. Yeah. So that we don't age.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right. I wonder if part of why, I mean, there's so many reasons, but part of why women struggle with that is because there's no initiation from this idea from maiden to mother. So bringing it, bringing this back to your book on the feminine archetypes, how can women work with those to access their power?

Accessing Feminine Archetypes

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. So, well, for one, if you don't know about the archetypes, I um welcome you to learn about them. And so this book I wrote is called Sage, Huntress, Lover, Queen for your listeners. And um, there's more uh archetypes than that. There's the maiden, mother, sage, huntress, lover, mystic, queen, and weaver. And in my view, in my study, in my approach, it's not a stepping stone like, oh, you're just the maiden, now you're the mother. I mean, there is a rite of passage as we age, but what I'm proposing in these archetypes is that we can access the sage, which is our inner elder, our our intuitive one. At any time in our life when we need it, we can access the mystic when we're, you know, often we'll come to a point in our life where like something's missing. And it's often uh a spiritual practice, I would say. I mean, if we can be uh open enough to not just go shopping to fill that void. I mean, I think there's right, there's that, that's that's it. Oh, we shop or we we make our we go to the spa or whatever to feel good. Um, but over time, if the ink if that well does not get filled or if it does, if it feels unsatisfied, it's often that we're seeking deep, deeper meaning, in fact. And so the archetypes are not stereotypes, they're actually codes, they're formulas, they're synergies, they're vibrations that we get to muse on and go, okay, I need the huntress right now in my life because I have inertia and I can't get the project done. I can't, I can't seem to have, I don't have the discipline right now, and it's hard. So I invite the huntress in so that I get I wake up at 5 a.m. every morning so I can write this book. Because that's when you write is in between five and seven. Those are the golden hours, dear ones. So yeah, it it really um well, for a lot of us, because then you can carry on with your day, you get all your other work done. But if when you come in early and fresh, there's some magical energy that's gonna start to move through, and you'll be very surprised at what you find there.

SPEAKER_01

So, for an example, how do you call in the huntress? Like are any of the archetypes?

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Well, I need to call in the huntress writing this down. Calling on the huntress. The huntress, the huntress is the female warrioress. Okay, so the huntress is gonna sit on your altar, and I'm gonna we'll have to get you a set of these oracle cards. Um because the huntress, what she does, and because I wrote an oracle deck based also on all these archetypes and synergies, but the huntress knows how to come in to you. So you're gonna call her and you can um imagine uh imagine you, Jessa, as a huntress. Okay. You are you have some ornate, you have this beautiful belt, this warrioress belt, and it's maybe you're this ancient goddess, huntress, who knows how to get the job done, who knows how to discern. So discernment is a huge part of the huntress energy. So in the book, I call upon all these codes and these formulas and these practices, discerning how to get the job done by letting go of what actually isn't necessary. Because often, I don't know, I've had this experience a lot in my life. I'm the taskmaster, I'm a Virgo. So I'll like I'll go around and I'll do everything else except the biggest thing that needs to get done.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So the huntress will help you. She's kind of a sword too. She can slay through that energy and go, no, today I choose first the biggest project at hand. I go to her first. And so it's just this living energy inside that we get to go, oh, and I write about it extensively. And it, you know, it is helpful to, I would say, just read the huntress arc um chapter right now. Yeah. Just focus on that.

SPEAKER_01

I haven't got it. I I finished, I just finished the mother.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. So it's not sequential, so you don't need to go sequential. So I'd say when you flip through the archetypes, it's really helpful because like that book is on Spotify, it's on, you know, um, wherever you get, you can listen to it, you can read it. Um, but I definitely recommend getting the book because you can start underlying things, getting into things. Um, but I would go right to the huntress because when you open the book and you look through the archetypes, whatever one calls to you is really, it's it's really fun because it's like, oh, that you know, that's calling to me. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's why I like physical books. But because I was meeting with you today, I didn't have enough time to order that book and wait. So I had to get it on Kindle. And I started reading it Monday. So I was like, normally I do like to treat my books like oracles.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Would you like to pull a card from your I would.

SPEAKER_02

I would. I'm gonna shuffle. So I'm just gonna show um the card. Oh, well, that happens sometimes. One just jumped out, so I'm gonna read that one. So this is Journey into the Divine Matrix. It comes with a guidebook. This is like my latest project, and I'm really, really proud of it. I worked with the artist for three years to create. So this card literally jumped out. I shuffled them, and so then I go, okay, that's the card. So this is actually the maiden. It's this card is called River of Life. And so the maiden, the power of the maiden is full expression. Uh, you know, you as you know, your young teenage self running barefoot down the beach, not a care in the world, all passion, not holding any stress, the shadow of the maiden, and this is where we work a lot, is people pleaser. So we have to cut the people pleasing out, yeah. And we work in that full expression place. And this card is called the river of life. And it says, I hold the power to narrate my story. I will work with the river of life, not against it. So, this card for all of you listeners here, I give you now the permission and the inspiration, the encouragement to remember that you are the narrator of your story. You are the director, you are the choreographer, you are the creator of your life experience. And that the next part of this card is to work with the river of life. And this teaches us, you know, when we start bumping up against, you know, the stones in the river and the log jams, and or we start to try to go against the current, that's when things get really hard in life. I mean, we know that things in life are hard. I'm not saying that. And we know we need to be resilient, but where are you holding on where it's too hard? And where can you just open that out a little bit and then remember that you're in choice, that you're in power to go, no, I actually stand for this and I'm gonna work towards this.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. I'm gonna order this deck after we we exit. What I wanted to say about the maiden and holding on, because I was in in the maiden for so long, the shadow maiden. And I find most of my clients, women don't sometimes realize that they're people pleasing and that it's so deeply embedded. And I think part of it is fear of the void. And and because holding on is like, well, if I let go, then I'm gonna have to let these things fall away in my life that I'm not ready to let go of. And usually for women, it's relationships, right? And it's like the relationship is is only there because you are abandoning yourself to maintain the connection. So if you were to work through the people pleasing and learn to actually let go, it would probably fall away because it was m dependent on you abandoning yourself in the first place. And exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, thank you for bringing that forward. I love that. And, you know, it's also that this people pleasing and this caretaking um becomes an identity. And to let that identity go is really hard and scary because then one would say, Well, who's gonna need me? And who am I now when no one needs me?

SPEAKER_01

Which is really uh it's confronting.

SPEAKER_03

Very confronting.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, yes.

Letting Go of People-Pleasing

SPEAKER_01

I feel that going through that process is almost impossible unless you feel a connection to spirit or something deeper that's guiding you and holding you in that in that space of the total unknown.

SPEAKER_02

And also when uh, you know, the power of aging also is we get a little wiser and we go, enough is enough. Okay, I'm not gonna hold that anymore, or like this is I've I've done that. I've it's like sometimes we have a bit of a karmic debt to pay. You know what I mean? Like the stories that we, you know, we're here for, uh, or past life, karma, whatever you believe in. But when that karmic debt is over, it's over. And that's when that's that stepping stone, and that's another way to to look at it. Like that's another empowering place to look at it. It's like, no, that's not my life. That was a time in my life, and now I get to live this over here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I don't know why I'm feeling called to say this, but I just will. Um, because we're talking about ageism. Do you know what frownies are? Okay, so frownies are these, it's an alternative to Botox that's completely natural. You put them on your forehead and it's like a cast, like it forms a cast with the paper. And yes, um, because I I stopped getting Botox and because I used to get preventative Botox, but frownies work. So I just want to put it out there. They're like$25 and they really, really work. I wake up in the morning because you I do them every night, but yeah, it looks very overkill, but I don't think you need to do them every night. Maybe eventually I'll go for like four nights up four nights a week, but they really work.

SPEAKER_02

So amazing. Just wanted to. I've never heard of it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. They're good. What do you think the name is all about?

SPEAKER_04

Frownies. Yeah. Turn the crown upside down. Turn the crown upside down, probably. Something like that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, probably. But it's weird because you maybe, maybe, maybe there I I've seen women do them here. Maybe that's why.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_01

Because frownies doesn't have anything to do with your forehead.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's your third eye. Opening, opening, opening.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I feel like Botox does something to that. To this area.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, it certainly seems to be this constrictive energy, right? Yeah. And then not this opening energy. Very interesting, isn't it? How these things are they're all connected. It's it's everything is connected, and everyone needs to be in choice around that. So I empower everyone to be in choice around that and to tune in. Like you just said, I feel like that does something, you know, and you stopped. And it's like so so you just it's about tuning in to how it feels for you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02

And you can never change anyone's, you know, opinion, or you know, we can't set out to do that. We can't, I've, you know, I've really been learning that. That's another thing around aging that's so amazing. Is all the times that I used to feel I had to like prove myself or, you know, this is right, or this is what I believe in, is like that very much becomes a spacious, expansive landscape where there's room for everything. And it becomes way more of a curious, like, okay, yeah, that's your perspective. And I can say that internally. I don't even need to say that externally.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_02

I think that's saved um some relationships in my life. I think that's um supported my marriage, my relationships with my daughters, who are 12 and 15, and I'm like in a house of two amazing young women, and holding the flame of the seat, the throne, the queendom of that, to go, that's wise. And that's gonna save my energy too.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's really interesting too, because I mean, everything is subjective. Like when we really sit with that, nobody really knows. Like we're all just filtering our experience through our history, our biases, our nervous system patterning. It's all subjective. So there really is no objective reality outside of like the absolute, you know, like pure consciousness. It's all just we're it's all just a point of view. So I like to remind myself of that when I'm like having a hard time like understanding somebody, or I feel like I need to like know what this is and be right. It's like, no, that's not even really a thing at the end of the day. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your gifts and your wisdom. I really appreciate you. And is there anything that you'd like to leave us with? Anything I saw that you have retreats on your website.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, lots of retreats.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I have lots of retreats, but I I uh they're all on my website and I have online programs and I do about five international retreats a year. I I highly recommend anytime anyone can go away from their home and have the luxury, because I know it is fairly big luxury, to even three to five days get yourself somewhere where you're doing conscious work. It is life-changing. And I what I say is it grants you one year of your life. It gives you, it gives you one more, it gives you another year of life. Ooh, I like that. Yeah, it's mind-blowing to me. And I see it, and I have I have been doing this work for a long time. 15 years of leading international retreats, and it's just my favorite thing. Because they're more like trainings. It's not like a like we're learning things and we're being fed and we're being cared for, and we're so what as long as you get fed and you're you've you're housed and fed, and maybe there's some sun and some beauty and some sacred sites around you, the work just comes in so strong.

SPEAKER_01

I wish I could live like that.

SPEAKER_02

I know in a permanent, and then you come home from retreat and you're like, whoa, I have to cook for myself and my family. Oh my goodness. So, but I would love to um can I read something small? Yes, absolutely. This is from chapter six, and I just pulled it open. And so Rituals Remedy has these little poems. Ah, thank you. So, page 155, and this chapter, because I think it it it calls, it's the sacred moves through you, spirit is calling. So coming back to that, and so this is just a little tiny poem. Mystery occurs quietly in small hidden worlds, from ancient to ephemeral. In the space between realms lives magic. No longer fear something is missing. Chop wood and carry water. Let this simple task continue. Go so deep into the mundane that it becomes sacred. The micro moments become the macro cosmic, eternal web, casting out into the abyss from you out into the ether. Striking, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

You have a way with words, your poetry how you open the chapters and even just weaving that throughout the book. Have you ever thought about doing a just like a poetry book or something prose?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I have thought about that. That is, you know, it's uh it's yeah, it's on my list. And also on my list is um more meditations and shamanic journeys. Something I love to do is guiding I guide people through journeys and visualizations and just love that so much. So thank you. Thank you so much, Mark.